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I can't see any obvious lack of NPOV in the lead section. This can be in the eye of the beholder. Is there anything that you think definitely should not be in the lead section?--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)13:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The controversies, although should definitely be included in the lede per MOS, they are overwhelming it to the point of obscuring an actual summary of his life, as a biography should do. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:52, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A few quick points:
This sentence needs to be rewritten because it is tortuous and contains the word denied:
Galloway supported Ba'athist Iraq and travelled there to meet Saddam Hussein in 1994, in which controversy arose from comments considered to have praised Saddam, which he denied.
Do we need to know in the lead that a head injury led him "to wear a hat since"?
Do we need to quote voting percentages in the lead?
The long third paragraphs is a melange of unrelated facts.
Afaict, the phrase "and Ukraine's aspiration to join NATO" is not mentioned in the article body.
Biographies should focus on the aspects of a person's life that the sources we use focus on. If sources frequently report on controversies, the article should reflect that. Cortador (talk) 07:00, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The lead is, or at least was, a fair summary of the article body. The 1st paragraph is a short introduction, the 2nd is about his early life and political career, the 3rd is about his political positions and views, and the last is about his career as a presenter.
Makeandtoss, you say the controversies are "overwhelming" the lead, but only three controversies are mentioned: his praise for Saddam Hussein, the allegations he received illicit payments from Saddam's regime, and his expulsion from Labour. They take up only three lines. That's despite Galloway sparking numerous controversies in his lengthy career. Each of these three controversies are in the lead because they were important events in his political career and are still regularly mentioned in news articles about him today, twenty-thirty years later. So the NPOV tag is totally unwarranted. – Asarlaí(talk)16:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not essential for the lead to tell us that a head injury led him "to wear a hat since". But it's quite useful, in view of the fact it's very unusual for anyone to habitually wear a hat all the time these days. As with Gregory Porter, that detail could be in "Personal life" and should certainly not be only in the lead section. But it's certainly not "controversy".— Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinevans123 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, I meant where in this article is he described as "Catholic", apart from by himself? Your assertion "probably because of Wikipedia" might be difficult to substantiate. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Many people probably take his words in this article as gospel. Hitler described himself as a Christian in a speech in February 1933, yet was openly anti-Christian like Galloway. HerbGowan (talk) 13:41, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Galloway has always openly opposed Christianity. He even tried to blame Christians for World War II and the Holocaust on BBC "Question Time". HerbGowan (talk) 13:38, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
He now leads a small fringe party that is openly anti-Christian and anti-Semitic, the latter under the guise of "anti-Zionism". HerbGowan (talk) 14:03, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And that he was found guilty of all but the third charge. I think the lead section just summarises his very clear anti-war stance. Perhaps more detail is warranted in the main body? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:10, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Many Labour MPs strongly opposed the Iraq War. Only Galloway was expelled from the party- because it was not due to his anti-war activism. The lede must be reworded as it is factually wrong, and encourages readers to view Galloway as a martyr. HerbGowan (talk) 14:17, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure the word "martyr" springs to my mind for someone expelled from the Labour Party. I'd suggest that the wording in the lead section should not be changed unless it can be wholly supported by the detail in the main body. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:19, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Galloway is often described as a political martyr. He was expelled from Labour because he was clearly not loyal to the party, and had committed treason. HerbGowan (talk) 14:24, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is wandering off into original research territory. The current wording in the lead section is "He was expelled from the Labour Party in 2003 due to his prominent opposition to the Iraq War" and this is supported by the two sources above. Treason isn't mentioned, and if he had done this, he would have been charged.--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)14:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and the main body says: "The following day, the committee unanimously found Galloway guilty of four of the five charges: inciting Arabs to fight British troops, inciting British troops to defy orders, inciting voters to reject Labour MPs, and threatening to stand against Labour. Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party." which looks like a perfectly accurate account of the two sources. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:41, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The lede should mention the Abu Dhabi interview as it was the main reason. Implying it was just for opposing war is dangerous. HerbGowan (talk) 14:48, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think that might be too much detail for the lead section. But, in any case, where does the main body say that the Abu Dhabi interview was "the main reason"? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Telling the troops of your own country to disobey orders during wartime is clearly treason. In an earlier age Galloway would have been tried like William Joyce and John Amery. HerbGowan (talk) 14:46, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We are approaching WP:DROPTHESTICK here. Martin and I have explained that Wikipedia articles are based on reliable secondary sources, and while I don't dispute that the Abu Dhabi television interview was probably at the top of the list of reasons why he was expelled from the party, this isn't explicitly stated in the sourcing.--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)15:20, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We all know that some Labour MPs opposed the war in Iraq, but George Galloway used such flamboyant language that his expulsion became pretty much inevitable. We aren't here to ask "Why was MP A expelled but MP B wasn't?"--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)15:41, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No other MP was accused of inciting attacks on British forces. That went far beyond simply "prominent opposition to the Iraq War". HerbGowan (talk) 18:13, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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